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Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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I think this document merits its own thread:




The PDF document link is at the end of that linked page OR:

Had an interesting chat with an acquaintance who works in one of the big pharma. He has been working on shift throughout this lockdown. He would be a very "spock" type character .. logical and all that. He said being in a place for the lockdown that would have high protocols anyway he genuinely cannot see a large number of SMEs etc managing this "Return to Work Safely Protocol". In some cases just will not be able to due to physical size of small premises and the like. And in other cases will not be ready by 18th IF they can open then.

A GENERAL POINT: This doc is a good start point document in my opinion BUT it needs to be adjusted to factor in companies of all sizes big and small. Eventually one size fits all will not work otherwise will mean many smaller firms will not open in near future if at all OR to open they will have to move to larger premises to cater for the protocols?

EDIT: 15/5/2020 - UPDATED DOCs added:

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/58bc8b-taoiseach-announces-roadmap-for-reopening-society-and-business-and-u/?referrer=/roadmap/

2 new PDF docs added here:

EDIT as of 15/09/2020 .. the NEW LIVING WITH COVID mid term plan

Link - https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/resilience-recovery-2020-2021-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/
 
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Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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The PDF document link to the "Return to Work Safely Protocol":

Had an interesting chat with an acquaintance who works in one of the big pharma. He has been working on shift throughout this lockdown. He would be a very "spock" type character .. logical and all that. He said being in a place for the lockdown that would have high protocols anyway he genuinely cannot see a large number of SMEs etc managing this "Return to Work Safely Protocol". In some cases just will not be able to duje to physical size of small premises and the like.
Point 6 on page 17 is interesting: I am being cogniscent of VISITORS mentioned here which I take it also includes visiting repair people etc entering a premises to fix something

6. Customer Facing Roles Many of the measures noted above for workers can and should equally be applied for work activity that involves direct customer or visitor contacts.

8th May 2020 Employers must:

- eliminate physical interaction between workers and customers as much as is reasonably practicable through revised working arrangements. For example through provision of online or phone orders, contactless delivery or managed entry.

- provide hand sanitisers at entry/exitpoints.

- install physical barriers and clear markings to ensure that contact between workers and customers is kept to a minimum and to ensure that queues do not form between customers as they wait to be served.

- implement a cleaning regime to ensure that contact points for workers and customers are kept visibly cleaned at all times.

- display the advice on the COVID-19 measures in visible locations to ensure that customers are also adhering to what is required



I have many clients who are in small offices .. solicitors, accountants and the like. Where it would be impossible to social distance from reception desk or between staff in one room. Even me going in repairing a computer will be one too many in these spaces. Outside of the cleanliness of such areas. At best would mean the whole office will have to clear out before I go in .. for example

Having read this document .. There is a huge amount of work for all business now to get this right if they can, I'm not sure it will be possible to do so in ONE WEEK ( here to 18th May ) for many if not all?
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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I'm looking at page 16 about the use of required PPE...we are already required to wear gloves to a specific standard at all times on site so i'm wondering what the procedure will be as the gloves could come into contact with infected surfaces unknowningly....do you just use gel on the surface to kill any of the beasties...?..................some parts of the glove is a type of of elasticated fabric that i know was already shot down for use with safety glasses in some of the hospitals a while back......

Also with face masks i can't see how you can reuse a face mask between breaks or other times where you may have to remove it...? so is their a reccomendation on how many per day...?

Seems to me anyways this is going to get expensive over the long term unless the government is going to do something for employers around the provision of this equipment as this seems to be here for the long haul.....
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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I'm looking at page 16 about the use of required PPE...we are already required to wear gloves to a specific standard at all times on site so i'm wondering what the procedure will be as the gloves could come into contact with infected surfaces unknowningly....do you just use gel on the surface to kill any of the beasties...?..................some parts of the glove is a type of of elasticated fabric that i know was already shot down for use with safety glasses in some of the hospitals a while back......

Also with face masks i can't see how you can reuse a face mask between breaks or other times where you may have to remove it...? so is their a reccomendation on how many per day...?

Seems to me anyways this is going to get expensive over the long term unless the government is going to do something for employers around the provision of this equipment as this seems to be here for the long haul.....
Yip re face masks .. another person I know who works in large FDI ( genuinely, not hear say ) said for last month or 2 while working in lockdown period they were all handed surgical masks .. ONE A DAY, thats it
 
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Shaadi

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Feb 16, 2019
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For small businesses where space is tight, shift work and the use of homeworking or temporarily using alternative premises where possible would substantially relieve overcrowding. I'd be glad to hear that companies would have enough work on to make overcrowding a problem.

Adapting is the easy part, keeping the doors open is the hard part.
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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For small businesses where space is tight, shift work and the use of homeworking or temporarily using alternative premises where possible would substantially relieve overcrowding. I'd be glad to hear that companies would have enough work on to make overcrowding a problem.

Adapting is the easy part, keeping the doors open is the hard part.
As a matter of interest with respect to what you just said .. what about Solicitor, Accountant offices in this respect. Face to face meets with clients in small office spaces as most are bar the big offices in the cities. Just thoughts on that?
 

Round tower

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Feb 16, 2019
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Yip re face masks .. another person I know who works in large FDI said for last month or 2 while working in lockdown period they were all handed surgical masks .. ONE A DAY, thats it


Some say they should be worn and changed every couple of hours
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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Another general point .. I have had words with some of my small biz clients last week or so on returning to work in general. Most had this sort of attitude that come the 18th its bring the staff in, back to work .. literally .. and a box or two of wipes, gels and move tables around they were good to go. Im not sure thats the case now?
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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I foresee a nice growth area .. Health and Safety Office layout consultancy biz .. auditing premises for you and recommends there after.

Then also the perspex sheet business & custom H&S office furniture
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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Yip re face masks .. another person I know who works in large FDI ( genuinely, not hear say ) said for last month or 2 while working in lockdown period they were all handed surgical masks .. ONE A DAY, thats it

There needs to be clarity of this issue......if that's happening in large FDI what hope for people in smaller companies out there in general....?
 

Truthisfree

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Nov 27, 2018
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I foresee a nice growth area .. Health and Safety Office layout consultancy biz .. auditing premises for you and recommends there after.

Then also the perspex sheet business & custom H&S office furniture
Was thinking that, though how much cash there will be around after this one wonders?
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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Another general point .. I have had words with some of my small biz clients last week or so on returning to work in general. Most had this sort of attitude that come the 18th its bring the staff in, back to work .. literally .. and a box or two of wipes, gels and move tables around they were good to go. Im not sure thats the case now?

I'm getting that attitude in general not just with the return to work but that it's back on track at the weekends for meeting up with people etc.....
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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I'm getting that attitude in general not just with the return to work but that it's back on track at the weekends for meeting up with people etc.....
If companies particularly, behave this way then they WILL get shut down for not complying OR potentially sued if a staff member gets infected ..
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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For small businesses where space is tight, shift work and the use of homeworking or temporarily using alternative premises where possible would substantially relieve overcrowding. I'd be glad to hear that companies would have enough work on to make overcrowding a problem.

Adapting is the easy part, keeping the doors open is the hard part.

Shift work staggered breaks etc....could well clash with employment rights around working hours .,....Does this new protocol take precedent over other acts that protects workers already in place....?

I'm not trying to be inflexible or unreasonable here but experience tells me that there some are employers out there who will find some way to exploit this is allowed...
 

Franzoni

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If companies particularly, behave this way then they WILL get shut down for not complying OR potentially sued if a staff member gets infected ..
TBH i think it's an attitude creeping in with people not just with companies and employers.....
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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TBH i think it's an attitude creeping in with people not just with companies and employers.....
Maybe so out and about BUT I am also getting alot of push back from many saying May 18th still too early to go back to work and I get it in the air that IF they are back at work and things are not done right then they will anonymously whistle blow
 

Gatsbygirl20

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Dec 2, 2018
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I foresee a nice growth area .. Health and Safety Office layout consultancy biz .. auditing premises for you and recommends there after.

Then also the perspex sheet business & custom H&S office furniture
And tv ads with soothing female voices :
"Let us help you Covid-proof your business. We will sanitise your staff and hose them down at the point of entry. Let us provide your employees with online training in not dying (two hours training per employee).....We are also experts in ergonomics, algorithms, Feng Shui, and how to move a few chairs and tables around in your work space.

Let us help you put the COD back into COVID.

We are all in this together"
 

Shaadi

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Feb 16, 2019
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As a matter of interest with respect to what you just said .. what about Solicitor, Accountant offices in this respect. Face to face meets with clients in small office spaces as most are bar the big offices in the cities. Just thoughts on that?
Tricky indeed. In simplistic terms you can meet a client and converse from a distance of 2 metres, where privacy is important side office type settings will have to be created.

Across a reasonably sized office desk it would basically be a matter of neither participant getting too close to the table at the same time. The use of perspex sheeting and glass screens has allowed shops, post offices, banks and such to stay open where the maintenance of a 2m gap has been questionable to say the least.

In more open plan offices the return of partitions would set suitable boundaries. Necessity is the mother of invention.
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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Maybe so out and about BUT I am also getting alot of push back from many saying May 18th still too early to go back to work and I get it in the air that IF they are back at work and things are not done right then they will anonymously whistle blow

We are all well aware how whistleblowers are treated in Ireland......
 

soccop

Pavlov rings my bell.
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Nov 28, 2018
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Temporally dislocated.
And tv ads with soothing female voices :
"Let us help you Covid-proof your business. We will sanitise your staff and hose them down at the point of entry. Let us provide your employees with online training in not dying (two hours training per employee).....We are also experts in ergonomics, algorithms, Feng Shui, and how to move a few chairs and tables around in your work space.

Let us help you put the COD back into COVID.

We are all in this together"

There'll be a Mission Statement prominently displayed at Reception.
 

Vega1447

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Feb 17, 2019
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Some say they should be worn and changed every couple of hours
Masks can be reused. Wash in detergent and hypochlorite (Milton or diluted bleach) and dried on the line then placed aside for a week.

If Coronavirus can survive that then we are fucked..
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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We are all well aware how whistleblowers are treated in Ireland......
I used the ANONYMOUSLY word. A confidential line. I heard this being mentioned somewhere. The gov are going to be in no mood for pissing around with pre announced safety visits etc .. if they do we will be back in the crap again fast. It is in the gov and biz interest to not fudge this return, it has to work, its one bite of the cherry or back we go into lockdown
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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Masks can be reused. Wash in detergent and hypochlorite (Milton or diluted bleach) and dried on the line then placed aside for a week.

If Coronavirus can survive that then we are fucked..

We were working in one of the big hospitals when the CJD was the thing in the news and i remember hearing at the time they were finding traces of it on surgical instruments even after two bouts inside an autoclave.....

I'd still be happier with disposable masks.....
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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I used the ANONYMOUSLY word. A confidential line. I heard this being mentioned somewhere. The gov are going to be in no mood for pissing around with pre announced safety visits etc .. if they do we will be back in the crap again fast. It is in the gov and biz interest to not fudge this return, it has to work, its one bite of the cherry or back we go into lockdown

Hopefully we are seeing a sea change around this stuff.......

Although i did tell you previously about the last job we were on that there was a inquiry on site to try and find the person who wrote to the HSA over the conditions....

The builder stood down the entire site for an hour and had a meeting to try and find out who it was....
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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Hopefully we are seeing a sea change around this stuff.......

Although i did tell you previously about the last job we were on that there was a inquiry on site to try and find the person who wrote to the HSA over the conditions....

The builder stood down the entire site for an hour and had a meeting to try and find out who it was....
Yip @Franzoni .. but somehow I think things now have got way more serious during rather than pre this pandemic. I imagine workers up to before the pandemic did not feel as threatened by a health issue as this one, particularly as it can be fatal to many w/o them evening knowing so before hand.
 

Vega1447

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Feb 17, 2019
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We were working in one of the big hospitals when the CJD was the thing in the news and i remember hearing at the time they were finding traces of it on surgical instruments even after two bouts inside an autoclave.....

I'd still be happier with disposable masks.....
We are told that the virus lasts about 3 days on a metal surface and much less on cardboard or paper.

The viral load left after the process that I described would be (I think) a lot less than that floating in the air round an asymptomatic carrier.

Don't forget that the masks that we are talking about are worn to protect others, not ourselves...
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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We are told that the virus lasts about 3 days on a metal surface and much less on cardboard or paper.

The viral load left after the process that I described would be (I think) a lot less than that floating in the air round an asymptomatic carrier.

Don't forget that the masks that we are talking about are worn to protect others, not ourselves...

I get where your coming from....as i was pointing out to other posters one of main concerns is employers losing interest after the hullabaloo has died down and start backsliding on the provision of this stuff.....

I can only talk about my own situation but i've been told by a family member who works in a hospital that changing is recommended after touching it with your hands even if it's only to get a drink of water.....

That's not tallying up with what Robutnua posted about a friend of his only being issued with one mask per day in an FDI company.....
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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I am hearing many businesses see monday 18th as a green light to return when in fact it is only for businesses in Construction and Shops that were previously open in Tier 2.

Of course I am not sure it matters because those that do aint going to get caught unless shopped in by own staff?

The HSA dont have the bodies to police this properly?
 
Nov 29, 2018
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I see Leo has copied the French slide and schedule, as I predicted. The only thing he has not followed Macron on is closing the borders effectively and the.use of the attestion document.

The brits on the other hand got some primary school children, currently being home schooled by drunks, to prepare theirs.
 

Robutnua

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Nov 28, 2018
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@Franzoni Was listened to 10 O clock news on 4FM.

Tom parlon was on saying they dont expect much more than 20% of site workers to be back in coming weeks and it will take over a year before the construction biz will get anywhere back to where it was pre the pandemic
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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@Franzoni Was listened to 10 O clock news on 4FM.

Tom parlon was on saying they dont expect much more than 20% of site workers to be back in coming weeks and it will take over a year before the construction biz will get anywhere back to where it was pre the pandemic

Yeah one of my work colleagues sent me a message on Whatsap there about it.....our crowd still seem to be of the opinion were back on site next Monday to rock n roll and still no information forthcoming on what measures they are taking while other companies who operate in the same area have informed their staff weeks ago as to what's happening..........

I know as i've seen a copy of the one of the emails they have sent out.......
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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The anti-vaxxers are flat out on twitter. This is "just another flu", "we need to end lockdown", "deaths are exaggerated" etc.

Seems to be the tone of the tweet from that DJ that was posted earlier as well........
 
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