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COVID CERTs, Airborne, Ventilation, Quarantine. NPHET/GOV Pressers. Business, SCHOOLS, Hospitality ( 2.12.21 Potential New Measures inc for Hseholds )

Round tower

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,579
960
Some say that there were decades of underinvestment. If so, the increase in expenditure, allied with an increasing population may not be as significant as it seems and merely an unsuccessful attempt to catch up on that underinvestment. There does seem to have been an explosion in management positions, at the expense of frontline ones but I suspect that's only a small part of the problem.

The whole thing is enormously complicated and hard to analyse but one thing is certain - our health service is extraordinarily poor by comparison with other European countries that we like to view as peers.

This isn't a bad article but there have been vast screeds wrtten on the topic over many years

It has being proven that this thing that our health service is underinvestment is wrong, we have one of the highest investment in the healt service per capits in the OECD, what needs to be done is a complete new up to date IT system instaled in all hospitals. Posted before of a hospital in the midlands where my niece worked for 6 months as a docter, their payroll was done manualy and had many people working in payroll in the hospitel.
 

seanof

Member
Nov 27, 2018
2,896
2,856
It has being proven that this thing that our health service is underinvestment is wrong, we have one of the highest investment in the healt service per capits in the OECD, what needs to be done is a complete new up to date IT system instaled in all hospitals. Posted before of a hospital in the midlands where my niece worked for 6 months as a docter, their payroll was done manualy and had many people working in payroll in the hospitel.
Read the first paragraph of my post carefully. The suggestion is that the cumulative damage of decades of gross underfunding can not be corrected merely by meeting current international annual norms.
 

T. Leaf

Member
Nov 28, 2018
2,367
1,854
That is the thing, the health service is not underfunded
Certainly. And the point has been made that the question has been asked: what is being done with this funding? First port of call would have to the the Government in Residence. After that, the Department of Health. An inquiry into it should be set up. And answers should be demanded.

I would think that the priority at the moment should not be an IT upgrade; that will not open closed hospital wards. More recruitment of what we like to call frontline staff (doctors, nurses) is what is needed.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Stop the panic lads ..


The CMO's message is consistent with the view building within Government for the last 24 hours.

This afternoon's meeting, which lasted for more than an hour-and-a-half, was said to have painted a picture of a difficult situation but there was no sense of sudden alarm.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Some stats type tweets etc coming from various sources showing below NPHET optimistic and responding to people taking care it seems.

So a Q .. if thats the case and people now being careful out of fear no doubt which is beginning to work and impact on the numbers. What then when we exit this surge in numbers back down to manageable and low numbers? Will people take foot off gas, less careful, fear gone and we back up again?

When will the lesson be learned I wonder? Will it be this time when people will go ah now I get it
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
Stop the panic lads ..


The CMO's message is consistent with the view building within Government for the last 24 hours.

This afternoon's meeting, which lasted for more than an hour-and-a-half, was said to have painted a picture of a difficult situation but there was no sense of sudden alarm.
Holohan said quite clearly a day or two ago that they would look at this week's figures before making a recommendation on further restrictions. Last week's 7-day average was 4300 and so far this week it's about 4400-4500 so we will know in a few days if the tide has turned. If the traffic (and particularly the night traffic) on my road is anything to go by, a lot of people have already gone into lockdown of their own volition, as they hear of more and more neighbours and family members catch the virus.
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
Some stats type tweets etc coming from various sources showing below NPHET optimistic and responding to people taking care it seems.

So a Q .. if thats the case and people now being careful out of fear no doubt which is beginning to work and impact on the numbers. What then when we exit this surge in numbers back down to manageable and low numbers? Will people take foot off gas, less careful, fear gone and we back up again?

When will the lesson be learned I wonder? Will it be this time when people will go ah now I get it
But what exactly do you expect people to do - live in semi-lockdown all the time? It is inevitable that numbers will always go up once normality resumes. However, a few relatively modest measures (like enforcement of the Covid pass and some distancing measures in pubs and restaurants, and earlier rolling out of boosters) could have curbed the scale of this particular wave.
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
Some stats type tweets etc coming from various sources showing below NPHET optimistic and responding to people taking care it seems.

So a Q .. if thats the case and people now being careful out of fear no doubt which is beginning to work and impact on the numbers. What then when we exit this surge in numbers back down to manageable and low numbers? Will people take foot off gas, less careful, fear gone and we back up again?

When will the lesson be learned I wonder? Will it be this time when people will go ah now I get it
If by "taking their foot off gas" you mean having the temerity to go back out into the world again to see their families, friends, grandchildren---yes they will

That's the goal (I hope) : humans living as humans need to live.

The vaccines, or certainly the boosters, will have to give us that, or something approaching it.

A sort of semi-permanent lockdown cannot be the game plan going forward.
 

Norman Bates

You thought I was nice...
Member
Dec 10, 2018
7,703
7,248
DublinBayS
My Green Pass app was updated yesterday so you can easily load the booster cert into the app.

Alas, I was obly given a handwritten card for my booster ... so until I get a QR code then it won't load ...

Haven't heard anything about them sending out updates for the booster .... and some countries are already discussing boosters being a requirement for travel.

Just saying loike ....
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
I didnt explain myself properly it seems ( @Gatsbygirl20 @midlander12 ) .. I am not saying go back into lockdown, nothing of the sort. I would disagree completely if the gov came out with any sort of lockdown in coming weeks, NO MORE. By lockdown I mean like this time last year.

However what I am saying is if we are to live with this virus as free as we can to go back to some sort of normal we should learn what happens if we potentially go too far with loosening up our behaviours/socialising ... like now?

Surely there is some sort of middle road where we try and do some distancing, tone back our socialising a tad every so often and wear masks properly + use the cert, ventilation and so on .. especially in winter times. And if like now a surge happens, dont panic, just put the breaks on some of our socialising ourselves in a sensible manner when we see numbers going nuts. Minimal gov involvement .. work and biz, hospitality all stay open
 
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midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
My Green Pass app was updated yesterday so you can easily load the booster cert into the app.

Alas, I was obly given a handwritten card for my booster ... so until I get a QR code then it won't load ...

Haven't heard anything about them sending out updates for the booster .... and some countries are already discussing boosters being a requirement for travel.

Just saying loike ....
I didn't get anything at all from the pharmacy but I did have to fill in a form giving my PPSN so I presume at some stage it will be linked up with the existing digital cert. I'm going to ask about it next time I go in.
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
I didnt explain myself properly it seems ( @Gatsbygirl20 @midlander12 ) .. I am not saying go back into lockdown, nothing of the sort. I would disagree completely if the gov came out with any sort of lockdown in coming weeks, NO MORE. By lockdown I mean like this time last year.

However what I am saying is if we are to live with this virus as free as we can to go back to some sort of normal we should learn what happens if we go too far with loosening up our behaviours/socialising ... like now?

Surely there is some sort of middle road where we try and do some distancing, tone back our socialising a tad every so often and wear masks properly + use the cert, ventilation and so on .. especially in winter times. And if like now a surge happens, dont panic, just put the breaks on some of our socialising ourselves in a sensible manner when we see numbers going nuts.
There probably is but it needs to be spelled out clearly for people and not this constant see-saw of 'recommendations' and 'guidelines' which change on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. I would also be sceptical of a 'middle road' having much impact on the younger age groups, both from observation and anecdotal evidence and also recalling myself at that age. That's not a reason for not trying it, though.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
There probably is but it needs to be spelled out clearly for people and not this constant see-saw of 'recommendations' and 'guidelines' which change on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. I would also be sceptical of a 'middle road' having much impact on the younger age groups, both from observation and anecdotal evidence and also recalling myself at that age. That's not a reason for not trying it, though.
Well thats what I was trying to say in my first post on this. We are in what we are in at the moment .. a surge .. and would have to conclude many of us took our hands off the tiller a bit with respect to socialisation both in leisure and work AND also dropped a bit in our proper use of masks, distancing when we can etc. Surely we can see this connection between a surge such as now and increased socialisation + less of the other things ?

Im not saying stop socialisation, I am saying I wonder can we learn from where we are at right now and why we are at this point so next time if a nation alert happens that numbers are getting high in hospital we just pull back a bit on socialisation to pull the numbers back down again. This also to stop the yoyo extremes?

Unfortunately this virus is a highly contagious respiratory disease that uses all of us as a host and thrives when we are near each other.
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
Well thats what I was trying to say in my first post on this. We are in what we are in at the moment .. a surge .. and would have to conclude many of us took our hands off the tiller a bit with respect to socialisation both in leisure and work AND also dropped a bit in our proper use of masks, distancing when we can etc. Surely we can see this connection between a surge such as now and increased socialisation + less of the other things ?

Im not saying stop socialisation, I am saying I wonder can we learn from where we are at right now and why we are at this point so next time if a nation alert happens that numbers are getting high in hospital we just pull back a bit on socialisation to pull the numbers back down again. This also to stop the yoyo extremes?

Unfortunately this virus is a highly contagious respiratory disease that uses all of us as a host and thrives when we are near each other.
I agree and I also think non-enforcement of existing regulations has a lot to do with it - there has been no will at all here to try anything new. Everything has been about this lockdown v reopening 'yoyo' as you call it. For those of us who do not socialise much and just want to get on with everyday life within reasonable and livable limits, it's tedious and baffling.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Leo was on CB earlier .. recommending FFP2 masks vs cloth/surgical like the one he wears and with him in studio. I suppose better late than never BUT issue here is we only get the Chinese standard KN95 masks here in pharmacies only ( I wonder why that is? ) and at €3 a pop. In Europe its the FFP2 euro standards mask which can be bout for as little as .18C a piece in box of 100 ( farmaciadirect site in spain, on amazon.de etc )

Also this:

 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Amazing thing always in this country .. start out with making sure you come up with seemingly insurmountable barriers to doing things. This is now the case from parent groups on RTE there over kids and masks. Rather than starting off with HOW we can progress with this, its a world of excuses and difficulties put in place for not doing it ... negativity

Orla Hegarty has been tweeting recent images all day of kids of all ages across the world wearing masks of all kinds

 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
Amazing thing always in this country .. start out with making sure you come up with seemingly insurmountable barriers to doing things. This is now the case from parent groups on RTE there over kids and masks. Rather than starting off with HOW we can progress with this, its a world of excuses and difficulties put in place for not doing it ... negativity
The other evening we were discussing masks for primary school pupils. In France they have worn them for months, the requirement was dropped as numbers dropped but has been reinstated.

I suggested that as behaviour is learned, any problems that children have with masks can be directly linked to parents' attitudes. I know several people who have encouraged their 4+ year olds to play at wearing a mask. They support mask wearing in primary school and are trying to normalise it before it becomes mandatory.

The French children who pass my house on their way to school, accompanied by mask wearing parents, seem happy enough.

France did not indulge the demands for "exemptions" for adults, on the basis if you are too sick to wear a mask, you need to stay at home. This curtailed a lot of the rubbish we hear here.

I was in Belfast recently, there was a hotel guest, who spent as much time as I did in the smoking area, wearing a homemade label around her neck which said that due to her "hidden disability" she could not wear a mask. I have no idea what her "hidden disability" was but it didn't stop her smoking 20+ per day and getting through a substantial daily quota of booze.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
So about MASKS. Particularly the KN95s ( China Standard )/ FFP2s ( EU Standard ). These snuggly fit your face and keep virus away from you. Virologist on 96FM this morning once worn properly they prevent you getting infected by up to 95%. Also LEO was on RTE CB sporting one yesterday and recommending

Unfortunately in RIP OFF Ireland these masks are €2.50/€3 a pop. However via Europe Sites inc AMAZON.DE you can get them for as little as 0.18c each in packs of 100.

To this end for those interested I bought 100 FFP2 Masks individually packed from Farmacia direct in Spain. 4 days to arrive here. They are €17.95 for the 100. For BLACK FRIDAY add coupon BLACK for another 10% off. Then add shipping .. its about €15. So landed each mask is about .33c VS €2.50/€3 each here

https://www.farmaciasdirect.com/mascarillas-quirurgicas-y-desechables-ffp2-ffp3-2194

Best look at this site in EDGE or CHROME to translate to English. All very efficient, arrived in 4 days in a well padded box by courier.

PS - Herself had a look at this site and was amazed at the great value even with shipping for makeup and the like, serious amount of stuff at this site
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
Portugal lockdown

Hardly a lockdown, apart from the barmen's week off in New Year....

Under the new rules, all passengers flying into Portugal will have to show a negative test before boarding and airlines will face a fine of €20,000 per passenger for failing to check.

Vaccine certificates will be obligatory for entry into hotels, restaurants, gyms and cultural events; masks will again be required for indoor public spaces; visitors to care homes, hospitals, bars, dance halls and big sports and cultural events will have to show negative tests.

For a “containment week” starting January 2, tele-work will be obligatory, bars closed and school holidays extended to prevent a post-holiday season spread, Costa said.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Anti Maskers in effect?



Of course one could argue this is in favour of the kids that do attend. Less kids in the classrooms
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
Hardly a lockdown, apart from the barmen's week off in New Year....

Under the new rules, all passengers flying into Portugal will have to show a negative test before boarding and airlines will face a fine of €20,000 per passenger for failing to check.

Vaccine certificates will be obligatory for entry into hotels, restaurants, gyms and cultural events; masks will again be required for indoor public spaces; visitors to care homes, hospitals, bars, dance halls and big sports and cultural events will have to show negative tests.

For a “containment week” starting January 2, tele-work will be obligatory, bars closed and school holidays extended to prevent a post-holiday season spread, Costa said.
Sensible restrictions, in particular where vaccine certificates are mandatory. Ireland has a higher number of cases yet the government refused to extend the vaccine certificate requirement to all indoor and selected outdoor settings and to workers in hospitals and care homes and to hospital and care home visitors.
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
So about MASKS. Particularly the KN95s ( China Standard )/ FFP2s ( EU Standard ). These snuggly fit your face and keep virus away from you. Virologist on 96FM this morning once worn properly they prevent you getting infected by up to 95%. Also LEO was on RTE CB sporting one yesterday and recommending

Unfortunately in RIP OFF Ireland these masks are €2.50/€3 a pop. However via Europe Sites inc AMAZON.DE you can get them for as little as 0.18c each in packs of 100.

To this end for those interested I bought 100 FFP2 Masks individually packed from Farmacia direct in Spain. 4 days to arrive here. They are €17.95 for the 100. For BLACK FRIDAY add coupon BLACK for another 10% off. Then add shipping .. its about €15. So landed each mask is about .33c VS €2.50/€3 each here

https://www.farmaciasdirect.com/mascarillas-quirurgicas-y-desechables-ffp2-ffp3-2194

Best look at this site in EDGE or CHROME to translate to English. All very efficient, arrived in 4 days in a well padded box by courier.

PS - Herself had a look at this site and was amazed at the great value even with shipping for makeup and the like, serious amount of stuff at this site
How people in Germany have embraced FFP2 masks - The Local.de

In pharmacies, retail stories and online, the prices of the masks (which can range from €1 to €5 or even more per piece) have also dropped in recent weeks.

Meanwhile here could prices be dropping?

 
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Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
NPHET and GOV meet over. Socialization still too high it would seem. TBH I have not noted any difference in traffic levels in likes of Cork City in mornings etc so I imagine largely the WFH thing has been ignored


Tomorrow Cabinet will consider public health advice around travel into the state. Understood that could be rolling out mandatory PCR testing for everyone coming into the state

Cabinet also due to make a call tomorrow on NPHET advice around reducing social contacts for children. Health officials gave their rationale and said infection rates among 5 to 11 year olds and their parents is still high
 
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