• New Home.

    Hey all, just a little update.

    We have moved servers and as a result, we are now under a new URL and a new name, we are now Irishpolitics.net. Please change your bookmarks and update how you get to this site.

    Our new URL is

    www.irishpolitics.net

    The old URL will become obsolete over the coming week.

    We will also be upgrading the site software to the latest version but this will be done over the coming weeks, once everyone is comfortable with the new URL.

    Sorry for any inconvenience.

    Colm
  • Important Information regarding posting about Covid 19 Click Here

COVID vaccines, Booster Shots, Antivirals, ANTIGEN TESTS ( 25.11.21 - 65% in ICU unvaxed from 7% of adult pop )

Will you get vaccinated whenever a vaccine is available?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 77.3%
  • No

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • How much are you paying?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maybe later, when it proves effective.

    Votes: 3 6.8%

  • Total voters
    44
Nov 27, 2018
4,975
6,744
This whole thing brings me back to my main concern with the whole antigen testing hype; testing, in and of itself, solves nothing. The question is what do we do with the test results, and I'm seeing no real coherent plan for that. Stay at home if you have a positive is really no different to stay at home if you have symptoms, and for anyone in work is likely to cost a lot more than a 3 euro test.

Used for entry into venues or in workplaces, I can see the point of the tests. Used at home at random they seem to me to be an answer without a question.
From what I've read originally, people who self-test are meant to enter the result into an online database via the web. Cynic that I am, this doesn't sound convincing. There's a strong incentive to enter the result as "negative" if entering "positive" is going to result in lost earnings.
 
Last edited:

Statsman

The nice one, or so it seemed.
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Nov 28, 2018
10,770
11,819
A quiet retirement home
From what I've read originally, people who self-test are meant to enter the result into an online database via the web. Cynic that I am, this doesn't sound convincing. There's strong incentive to enter the result as "negative" if entering "positive" is going to result in lost earnings.
Ah, the database.

 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
And then, of course, there's Tony Hollohan's point that the tests could make things worse if people with symptoms and a false negative result don't stay at home.
But people can't use antigen tests when they have symptoms

The kind of people who do, are probably careless about everything else around Covid as well, so antigen testing while they have symptoms would be the least of their transgressions.

Some responsible people have already got the habit of doing an antigen test once a week while they are in the full of their health. If they keep getting negative results, they go about their lives as normal, observing social distancing, masks, Covid certs, etc

But at some point the antigen test shows a positive, although they have no symptoms. They immediately isolate and book a PCR test

Even if a few thousand people were alerted in this manner to the fact that they were most likely carrying a Covid infection, it would be worth it

It is certainly worth it in the factories and building sites where antigen tests have been used twice weekly on all staff. My own brother-in-law's Covid infection--initially showing no symptoms---was picked up on one of these routine tests in his factory.

Even in the worst case scenario where say, a family is going to a football match and they do an antigen test...Well, they were going anyway, so a negative result won't change anything. It's not as if they were hesitating about going. They have their tickets. They're set to go.

But a positive result would immediately alert them to the need to stay home

That's one less asymptomatic Covid-carrier sitting in the crowded terraces cheering on their team.

Rather than just focusing on the unvaccinated, we need to identify who is carrying the virus, and isolate them

It is the person carrying the virus with no symptoms, whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated, who poses the greatest threat

Antigen tests have a role to play here. Of course they have to be used responsibly, and they are no silver bullet

But that is true of everything in the fight against this virus : Nothing is a silver bullet on its own, and nothing is a substitute for responsible behaviour

Antigen tests are just one more thing.
 

Statsman

The nice one, or so it seemed.
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Nov 28, 2018
10,770
11,819
A quiet retirement home
But people can't use antigen tests when they have symptoms

The kind of people who do, are probably careless about everything else around Covid as well, so antigen testing while they have symptoms would be the least of their transgressions.

Some responsible people have already got the habit of doing an antigen test once a week while they are in the full of their health. If they keep getting negative results, they go about their lives as normal, observing social distancing, masks, Covid certs, etc

But at some point the antigen test shows a positive, although they have no symptoms. They immediately isolate and book a PCR test

Even if a few thousand people were alerted in this manner to the fact that they were most likely carrying a Covid infection, it would be worth it

It is certainly worth it in the factories and building sites where antigen tests have been used twice weekly on all staff. My own brother-in-law's Covid infection--initially showing no symptoms---was picked up on one of these routine tests in his factory.

Even in the worst case scenario where say, a family is going to a football match and they do an antigen test...Well, they were going anyway, so a negative result won't change anything. It's not as if they were hesitating about going. They have their tickets. They're set to go.

But a positive result would immediately alert them to the need to stay home

That's one less asymptomatic Covid-carrier sitting in the crowded terraces cheering on their team.

Rather than just focusing on the unvaccinated, we need to identify who is carrying the virus, and isolate them

It is the person carrying the virus with no symptoms, whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated, who poses the greatest threat

Antigen tests have a role to play here. Of course they have to be used responsibly, and they are no silver bullet

But that is true of everything in the fight against this virus : Nothing is a silver bullet on its own, and nothing is a substitute for responsible behaviour

Antigen tests are just one more thing.
But will they stay at home? I'm not convinced that the kind of person who buys tickets for an event in current circumstances is likely to take a test in the first instance, or act responsibly in the event of a positive test if they do.
 

danger here

Member
Feb 17, 2019
2,644
1,921
Vulkaneifel
This whole thing brings me back to my main concern with the whole antigen testing hype; testing, in and of itself, solves nothing. The question is what do we do with the test results, and I'm seeing no real coherent plan for that. Stay at home if you have a positive is really no different to stay at home if you have symptoms, and for anyone in work is likely to cost a lot more than a 3 euro test.

Used for entry into venues or in workplaces, I can see the point of the tests. Used at home at random they seem to me to be an answer without a question.

In Germany they had a very effective use, allowing politicians pre-election to say that life is going to continue normally and open sh!t up, testing is the way out of the pandemic ect ect. Same politicians are now screaming why don't we do something?! Six months later when the ICUs are at capacity.

Non certified quick tests are handy before grandma comes over for dinner, or in the office. Similar to those self-breathalyser yokes you can buy, won't hold up in court though if you are over the limit.
 
Last edited:

Statsman

The nice one, or so it seemed.
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Nov 28, 2018
10,770
11,819
A quiet retirement home
In Germany they had a very effective use, allowing politicians pre-election to say that life is going to continue normally and open sh!t up, testing is the way out of the pandemic ect ect. Same politicians are now screaming why don't we doing something?! six months later when the ICUs are at capacity.

Non certified quick tests are handy before grandma comes over for dinner, or in the office. Similar to those self-breathalyser yokes you can buy, won't hold up in court though if you are over the limit.
As I say, testing solves nothing on its own. You need, at a minimum, test, isolate, trace. Can we be sure that everyone who gets a self-test positive will go for a PCR test? If they do, how effective is the near-abandoned contact tracing system? And does voluntary self-isolation work, or do people say 'I'll just pop to the shop with my mask on/today's staff meeting is vital/sure the cinema will be empty anyway'?
 

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
As I say, testing solves nothing on its own. You need, at a minimum, test, isolate, trace. Can we be sure that everyone who gets a self-test positive will go for a PCR test? If they do, how effective is the near-abandoned contact tracing system? And does voluntary self-isolation work, or do people say 'I'll just pop to the shop with my mask on/today's staff meeting is vital/sure the cinema will be empty anyway'?
Doc on CB radio show few mornings back .. From Limerick I think. She said she knows in her surgery of whole familes who were doing antigen and in some cases whole families positive BUT in the main didnt bother getting a PCR
 

danger here

Member
Feb 17, 2019
2,644
1,921
Vulkaneifel
Just to continue my previous post. This is Spahn in early 2021 on this exact topic




9 months down the road..


 

danger here

Member
Feb 17, 2019
2,644
1,921
Vulkaneifel
In my own opinion, several things are clear after close to two years of this now.

1. liberal western governments don't really know any better than the rest of us how to handle the pandemic. Endless swinging between opening up and closing down seems to be the middle ground, with vaccines having less impact than hoped with the inevitable variants. Lots of sound bytes masks indecisiveness, pandering to lobby groups and so on.

2. The general public is far too trusting of arbitrary rules as a means of protection against the virus. How many times have we heard someone say: I met someone indoors, but within the legal limit, as if the virus is sitting outside the door counting the heads going in. A similar fallacy has developed with vaccines, where people substitute the word vaccine for an invincibility cloak against the virus, when in actual fact it's just going to dampen the effects. I'd rather not get the bloody thing if it can be avoided, at least.

3. the vast majority of humanity is wasted sperm, amplified by the internet.
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
But will they stay at home? I'm not convinced that the kind of person who buys tickets for an event in current circumstances is likely to take a test in the first instance, or act responsibly in the event of a positive test if they do.
Well, if they don't take the antigen test, or don't act responsibly, nothing is changed by making antigen tests available to people who ARE responsible

Of course some ticket holders don't give a feck. They intend going to the match anyway, antigen test or no antigen test

But this is not an argument against the more widespread use of antigen tests. In fact, it's the opposite.

Irresponsible people will always put others at risk. Nothing changes there. Antigen tests won't change that. They'll either not use the test, or act in characteristically irresponsible manner by taking the test while symptomatic

But a large cohort WILL use the tests as they should be used

And some of these people will find, through using an antigen test properly, that they are an asymptomatic carrier of the virus. They wouldn't know this otherwise.

So, armed with this vital information, they will isolate and get a PCR test

Thus protecting many other people from picking up the virus from them.

This is why, in my view, antigen tests are a good idea.

Not perfect. Not a silver bullet. No use in the hands of selfish irresponsible people.

But one more weapon.
 

Statsman

The nice one, or so it seemed.
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Nov 28, 2018
10,770
11,819
A quiet retirement home
Well, if they don't take the antigen test, or don't act responsibly, nothing is changed by making antigen tests available to people who ARE responsible

Of course some ticket holders don't give a feck. They intend going to the match anyway, antigen test or no antigen test

But this is not an argument against the more widespread use of antigen tests. In fact, it's the opposite.

Irresponsible people will always put others at risk. Nothing changes there. Antigen tests won't change that. They'll either not use the test, or act in characteristically irresponsible manner by taking the test while symptomatic

But a large cohort WILL use the tests as they should be used

And some of these people will find, through using an antigen test properly, that they are an asymptomatic carrier of the virus. They wouldn't know this otherwise.

So, armed with this vital information, they will isolate and get a PCR test

Thus protecting many other people from picking up the virus from them.

This is why, in my view, antigen tests are a good idea.

Not perfect. Not a silver bullet. No use in the hands of selfish irresponsible people.

But one more weapon.
I hope you're right.
 
Nov 27, 2018
4,975
6,744
In my own opinion, several things are clear after close to two years of this now.

1. liberal western governments don't really know any better than the rest of us how to handle the pandemic. Endless swinging between opening up and closing down seems to be the middle ground, with vaccines having less impact than hoped with the inevitable variants. Lots of sound bytes masks indecisiveness, pandering to lobby groups and so on.

2. The general public is far too trusting of arbitrary rules as a means of protection against the virus. How many times have we heard someone say: I met someone indoors, but within the legal limit, as if the virus is sitting outside the door counting the heads going in. A similar fallacy has developed with vaccines, where people substitute the word vaccine for an invincibility cloak against the virus, when in actual fact it's just going to dampen the effects. I'd rather not get the bloody thing if it can be avoided, at least.

3. the vast majority of humanity is wasted sperm, amplified by the internet.
I'd agree with point one and two, but number three? Absolutely not.

Where would mass consumption be without such a massive amount of consumers? No Amazon, no Reality TV, no Starbucks, no McDonalds, no scented candles. It wouldn't be life, it'd be hell on earth.
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
Oh, God, I would have a meltdown. I hate queues at the best of times

People who queued for 3 hours yesterday in the cold, were sent home from a test centre (Fairyhouse) because when they got to the top of the queue, they were told they had been sent the HSE text message by mistake, and they would not be getting the vaccine that day.

 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
Oh, God, I would have a meltdown. I hate queues at the best of times

People who queued for 3 hours yesterday in the cold, were sent home from a test centre (Fairyhouse) because when they got to the top of the queue, they were told they had been sent the HSE text message by mistake, and they would not be getting the vaccine that day.

I didn't think it was possible for the HSE to become more incompetent. It turns out that I was wrong.

Were vaccines wasted as a result of this latest act of gross incompetence?

If you gave a bunch of transition year kids the place to run they would do a better job.

What the hell is reason for not opening walk-in for boosters at centres and pharmacies alongside an easy to use online booking system?
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
I didn't think it was possible for the HSE to become more incompetent. It turns out that I was wrong.

Were vaccines wasted as a result of this latest act of gross incompetence?

If you gave a bunch of transition year kids the place to run they would do a better job.

What the hell is reason for not opening walk-in for boosters at centres and pharmacies alongside an easy to use online booking system?
They did a magnificent vaccine rollout after a stuttering start, with the first two shots

It'll probably the same this time with the boosters. Once they're fully up and rolling, it'll all work like a dream.

We hope.
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
They did a magnificent vaccine rollout after a stuttering start, with the first two shots

It'll probably the same this time with the boosters. Once they're fully up and rolling, it'll all work like a dream.

We hope.
Unfortunately we do not have the time to allow them another series of cockups before getting it right.

Boosters need to be rolled out immediately to all who had the second dose 5/6 months ago, with priority given to those who were forced to have two doses of AZ, often waiting for the second dose while younger, less vulnerable were getting two doses of Pfizer or Moderna.
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
As soon as I heard a HSE official being grilled by Claire Byrne and denying outright that there were any walk-in centres, I knew immediately that (a) these centres existed, and (b) that they would be closed/ disappeared/ squared away, almost at once.

GPs were supposed to be only dealing with the over seventies for the moment, with the rest getting appointments in the test centres

A friend of mine--aged 62, no underlying condition---phoned her GP yesterday just on the off-chance. The GP told her to drop into the surgery tomorrow for her Booster.

There are loopholes everywhere, but you have to have your ear to the ground and be ready to jump on them before they are closed off.
I called into my local pharmacy last weekend and was given it on the spot - they apologised that it might 'take 10-15 minutes'. I would have happily waited all day. However a friend in her 60's who got her second dose (AZ) a month after me was told she'd have to wait until her 5 months were up next month. I think (and hope) this gap will be dispensed with soon. I had no side-effects at all this time.

The problem is that the main infection groups are the 25-45 cohort and under-12's so the boosters for us oldies aren't going to put much of a dent in the numbers yet.
 

hollandia

Literally knows shit
Staff member
Moderator
Member
I called into my local pharmacy last weekend and was given it on the spot - they apologised that it might 'take 10-15 minutes'. I would have happily waited all day. However a friend in her 60's who got her second dose (AZ) a month after me was told she'd have to wait until her 5 months were up next month. I think (and hope) this gap will be dispensed with soon. I had no side-effects at all this time.

The problem is that the main infection groups are the 25-45 cohort and under-12's so the boosters for us oldies aren't going to put much of a dent in the numbers yet.
Excellent. I get to be a forty six year old grouse.
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
I called into my local pharmacy last weekend and was given it on the spot - they apologised that it might 'take 10-15 minutes'. I would have happily waited all day. However a friend in her 60's who got her second dose (AZ) a month after me was told she'd have to wait until her 5 months were up next month. I think (and hope) this gap will be dispensed with soon. I had no side-effects at all this time.

The problem is that the main infection groups are the 25-45 cohort and under-12's so the boosters for us oldies aren't going to put much of a dent in the numbers yet.
Yes, that is the worry

Among the many good things this much-criticised government did was to insist early on, on Covid certs or proof of vaccination for entrance to hospitality, and to roll out these Certs with great efficiency

This is what brought all the under 25s on board the Vaccination Train. Nothing else

The thought of being excluded from some drinking den with their pals all inside, or of being unable to board a flight to Santa Ponsa to spend their PUP money, was enough to strike terror into the hearts of the young.

They flocked to vaccination centres in their thousands.

This time, there is no such incentive. They have their certs

They are not afraid of "killing granny" because granny will soon have her booster

They can't be bothered getting boosters because they are not afraid of Covid. Even if they were told it would kill them--which it won't--they have no fear of dying, because dying has no reality for them, and is something that only happens to old people anyway
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
Yes, that is the worry

Among the many good things this much-criticised government did was to insist early on, on Covid certs or proof of vaccination for entrance to hospitality, and to roll out these Certs with great efficiency

This is what brought all the under 25s on board the Vaccination Train. Nothing else

The thought of being excluded from some drinking den with their pals all inside, or of being unable to board a flight to Santa Ponsa to spend their PUP money, was enough to strike terror into the hearts of the young.

They flocked to vaccination centres in their thousands.

This time, there is no such incentive. They have their certs

They are not afraid of "killing granny" because granny will soon have her booster

They can't be bothered getting boosters because they are not afraid of Covid. Even if they were told it would kill them--which it won't--they have no fear of dying, because dying has no reality for them, and is something that only happens to old people anyway
The validity of their certs (assuming they are being looked for as they should be) could be made dependent on their receiving boosters when due.

There are plenty of relatively simple things that can be done to tighten up the system and actually enforce it as opposed to the sort of aspirational and advisory guff that Irish politicians adore. There are also quite a few of the under-25 age group unvaccinated anyway (the last figure I saw was upwards of 40%), largely because the Covid pass ISN'T being sufficiently enforced.
 
Last edited:

Robutnua

Member
Nov 28, 2018
13,848
6,260
Interesting that AZ boss Pascal Soriot out today saying UK numbers - deaths and hospitaisations are better than Europes because of AZ being better T-Cell wise than the mRNAs


Scientists have reacted with scepticism to claims by AstraZeneca’s CEO that low uptake of the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab among elderly Europeans could explain the current surge in Covid-19 infections in mainland Europe.

Soriot said: “It’s really interesting when you look at the UK. There was a big peak of infections but not so many hospitalisations relative to Europe. In the UK [the Oxford/AstraZeneca] vaccine was used to vaccinate older people whereas in Europe people thought initially the vaccine doesn’t work in older people.

“What I’m saying is that T-cells do matter and in particular it relates to the durability of the response, especially in older people, and this vaccine has been shown to stimulate T-cells to a higher degree in older people. There’s no proof of anything … we don’t know. But we need more data to analyse this and get the answer.”
 

Round tower

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,579
960
If they get rid of the 5-month rule you'll probably get yours soon enough.
It will be 6 months next weekend, so i expect i will get my booster in the next week or 2, it was my GP i got the vaccines from, a fellwas saying last weekend that he had being vaccinated by his GP but it was the vaccination centre in Castlebar he got word for the booster
 

midlander12

Member
Dec 4, 2018
3,794
2,558
It will be 6 months next weekend, so i expect i will get my booster in the next week or 2, it was my GP i got the vaccines from, a fellwas saying last weekend that he had being vaccinated by his GP but it was the vaccination centre in Castlebar he got word for the booster
The recommended gap is currently 5 months, so if you're saying you got your second dose 6 months ago you are already overdue! I'd advise you to try a local pharmacy to see if you can get one sooner.
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
It will be 6 months next weekend, so i expect i will get my booster in the next week or 2, it was my GP i got the vaccines from, a fellwas saying last weekend that he had being vaccinated by his GP but it was the vaccination centre in Castlebar he got word for the booster
Phone your GP. You might at least get to talk to the secretary. If the GP is doing boosters he will put you to the top of the queue if you have a six month gap. Or he will put you in touch with a pharmacy or test centre
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
Phone your GP. You might at least get to talk to the secretary. If the GP is doing boosters he will put you to the top of the queue if you have a six month gap. Or he will put you in touch with a pharmacy or test centre
I call my old GP, not doing boosters, have not got the staff.

Tomorrow's mission will be "hunt, and find, a booster".
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
Not on sale until ,8am Thursday.
Garth will personally see to the antigen tests. He loves us. His heart is breaking. Asking him to put on 3 concerts instead of 5 is like asking him to choose between his own children.....

For Garth, the worst thing wasn't the global pandemic. No, it was the cancellation of the 2014 gigs in Croke Park. The cancellation "was like a death in the family"...The grief....

Give him two pina coladas, one for each hand. He'll set sail with Captain Morgan and never leave dry land...
 

Round tower

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,579
960
Phone your GP. You might at least get to talk to the secretary. If the GP is doing boosters he will put you to the top of the queue if you have a six month gap. Or he will put you in touch with a pharmacy or test centre
From last weekend their was alot of cars in the carpark so i expect he is doing boosters, probably leave it a week or 2 and enquire
 

Gatsbygirl20

Member
Dec 2, 2018
9,999
14,131
From last weekend their was alot of cars in the carpark so i expect he is doing boosters, probably leave it a week or 2 and enquire
If you got your last injection over 6 months ago, don't delay. Sometimes these GPs forget. They are under a lot of pressure. You have to remind them.
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
6,090
Unless, like Statsman, you are big in the fan club.
I have been roped in, along with god knows how many other family members, to get on to the sales site and stay there until we get two tickets for my niece as a surprise Christmas present.. We will either waste hours and come away empty-handed or end up with dozens of the damm things. Not sure which result is worse.
 

danger here

Member
Feb 17, 2019
2,644
1,921
Vulkaneifel
No coincidence that the district with the highest 7 day incidence in Germany, has among the lowest vaccination rates in the country and voted the far right AfD to top the poll there in September.

Separately, I see Singapore is going to be charging the 10% unvaccinated the full costs of their ICU stay, which I wonder might we see as a stick in Europe at some point?
 

Round tower

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,579
960
If you got your last injection over 6 months ago, don't delay. Sometimes these GPs forget. They are under a lot of pressure. You have to remind them.
Yes, a fella at work had got the first jab at the same day as me, when i and a few mre got called for our 2nd jab he had not not got the call, he rang our GP enquiring about his 2nd jab they had not got him down for his 2nd, all worked out and he got it that day as well
 
Top Bottom