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Sports: The place for discussing all the sportsing that's going on.

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Cruimh

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[Mod] FFS - we have asked nicely that people discuss sporting events. Politics and controversies don't belong on this thread.[/Mod]


Post 631

This thread is surely for discussing the sports events themselves, not associated issues, political or otherwise.

Can we keep it as a haven for events - if people want to discuss other issues around sports, then they should start OPs, and bearing in mind why this site was started, try to keep the OPs sensible and respectful?

Otherwise the mod team will have to start infracting people
 

T. Leaf

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Does it do either team any good?

To an extent its the same in RUGBY 6 nations. In this case ITALY. You could see some reason for it if the team like Italy over the years improved but they havent, in fact got worse. There have been rumblings of turfing Italy and replacing with another like Rumania who have a handy Rugby team. Then also to maybe have a 2nd tier 6 nations type thing with the first there getting to the 6 nations.

So things like that maybe
Long ago, the GAA introduced second tier and third tier competitions for second and third tier teams in their hurling championships. Promotion and relegation are available for teams which earn it.

One of the problems with soccer, I think, is that it's so world-wide, getting that kind of change through would be difficult. The only change I remember in soccer in my lifetime, was a slight change to the offside rule, so the thing is not for changing.
 

Statsman

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Long ago, the GAA introduced second tier and third tier competitions for second and third tier teams in their hurling championships. Promotion and relegation are available for teams which earn it.

One of the problems with soccer, I think, is that it's so world-wide, getting that kind of change through would be difficult. The only change I remember in soccer in my lifetime, was a slight change to the offside rule, so the thing is not for changing.
The passback rule, 3 points for a win, the EPL, the Champions League, several significant changes to the offside law, VAR, the kickoff/restart changes, Bosman: soccer is changing all the time.
 

hollandia

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The passback rule, 3 points for a win, the EPL, the Champions League, several significant changes to the offside law, VAR, the kickoff/restart changes, Bosman: soccer is changing all the time.
Indeed. Rugby reviews its laws annually, and it's quite common to get new interpretations of the laws.
 

Statsman

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Indeed. Rugby reviews its laws annually, and it's quite common to get new interpretations of the laws.
And the GAA reverse their rule changes annually.
 

Robutnua

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The above about changes came about after my comment and discussion point from previous page:

So ENGLAND had there last match in WC qualifiers last night .. against San Marino

Result - ENG 10 .. San Mar NIL

The half time result was 6 nil

Im not sure what could should be done about this TBH. No one benefits from this surely? Least of all these 2 teams? Have San Marino improved because of this? Just throwing this out there is all :D
 

Round tower

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The above about changes came about after my comment and discussion point from previous page:

So ENGLAND had there last match in WC qualifiers last night .. against San Marino

Result - ENG 10 .. San Mar NIL

The half time result was 6 nil

Im not sure what could should be done about this TBH. No one benefits from this surely? Least of all these 2 teams? Have San Marino improved because of this? Just throwing this out there is all :D
San Marino is the lowest ranked team in the FIFA rankings, ranked 210 in the World rankings,
Never won a competitive fixture, a friendly win over Liechtenstein in 04 their only ever win
This year their reccord is Played 12, Won 0, Drew 0, Lost 12 , Scored 2, Conceded 57
Population of 33,000 with a playing numbers of 1400 according to the commenaters last night
 

hollandia

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San Marino is the lowest ranked team in the FIFA rankings, ranked 210 in the World rankings,
Never won a competitive fixture, a friendly win over Liechtenstein in 04 their only ever win
This year their reccord is Played 12, Won 0, Drew 0, Lost 12 , Scored 2, Conceded 57
Population of 33,000 with a playing numbers of 1400 according to the commenaters last night
There was some talk a few years back of a second tier world cup, where the really low ranked teams would play each other in a more balanced qualifying tournament, with the top two or four in that competition getting qualification to the actual world cup.
 

Robutnua

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There was some talk a few years back of a second tier world cup, where the really low ranked teams would play each other in a more balanced qualifying tournament, with the top two or four in that competition getting qualification to the actual world cup.
A very practical idea and pretty much what I was eluding to page before this.

This would also be good for the lower ranked teams surely? A way of advancing. Surely playing against likes of England and losing 10 nil is of no use to any one with regard to the advancement of players and teams
 

Round tower

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There was some talk a few years back of a second tier world cup, where the really low ranked teams would play each other in a more balanced qualifying tournament, with the top two or four in that competition getting qualification to the actual world cup.
Agree, it would be the right move, could have the bottom teams in each group in the differeent federations. does the different FIFA federations have nations league type competitions like UEFA.
A second WC B could be ran every 2 years say when the WC is not being run.
 

hollandia

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Agree, it would be the right move, could have the bottom teams in each group in the differeent federations. does the different FIFA federations have nations league type competitions like UEFA.
A second WC B could be ran every 2 years say when the WC is not being run.
I think the idea was that it would be the year before the WC so that the top teams would move right on through to the WC proper.
 

T. Leaf

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The passback rule, 3 points for a win, the EPL, the Champions League, several significant changes to the offside law, VAR, the kickoff/restart changes, Bosman: soccer is changing all the time.
Yes, I remember the passback rule coming in now. However, the formation of the Premier League and the Champions League and VAR has nothing to do with the way the game is played (they are not rule changes). Besides changing offside to from being inside the last defender (bar the goalkeeper) to being level with the last defender, what other changes have been made to the offside rule?
 

T. Leaf

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San Marino is the lowest ranked team in the FIFA rankings, ranked 210 in the World rankings,
Never won a competitive fixture, a friendly win over Liechtenstein in 04 their only ever win
This year their reccord is Played 12, Won 0, Drew 0, Lost 12 , Scored 2, Conceded 57
Population of 33,000 with a playing numbers of 1400 according to the commenaters last night
How does that compare to Andora's population, playing numbers?
 

Statsman

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How does that compare to Andora's population, playing numbers?
Yes, I remember the passback rule coming in now. However, the formation of the Premier League and the Champions League and VAR has nothing to do with the way the game is played (they are not rule changes). Besides changing offside to from being inside the last defender (bar the goalkeeper) to being level with the last defender, what other changes have been made to the offside rule?
Four changes, clarifications since 1990 here:

 

hollandia

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The Anthony Nash-inspired penalty rule is still in place.
Twice they've trialled a successful sideline cut over the bar as a two pointer in hurling, and twice they've reverted back. It's a fabulous skill that should be rewarded, in the same way that the mark, and forward mark reward the kick and catch element of Football.
 

T. Leaf

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Twice they've trialled a successful sideline cut over the bar as a two pointer in hurling, and twice they've reverted back. It's a fabulous skill that should be rewarded, in the same way that the mark, and forward mark reward the kick and catch element of Football.
I've heard plenty of people comment that it's so common now that it's no longer considered as a special skill and players can do it at a very young age, even lateral passes cut across the pitch over the heads of opponents. However when that goes wrong, there is some fuming!
 

hollandia

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I've heard plenty of people comment that it's so common now that it's no longer considered as a special skill and players can do it at a very young age, even lateral passes cut across the pitch over the heads of opponents. However when that goes wrong, there is some fuming!
In that instance that encourages defender not to just lash the ball into the back of the car park.
 

Round tower

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Twice they've trialled a successful sideline cut over the bar as a two pointer in hurling, and twice they've reverted back. It's a fabulous skill that should be rewarded, in the same way that the mark, and forward mark reward the kick and catch element of Football.


Agree it shuld as it's a great skill far better skill that the forward catch, a player should only get the forward catch by catching it over their head, at the moment a catch at chest level is rewarded with a mark.
 

Robutnua

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Fair fcks to the IRELAND U-21s in Tallaght against SWEDEN .. the UEFA U21 Euro 2023 Qualifier. SWEDEN topped the group BEFORE this match AND they have scored 18 goals so far in this tournament

If the y lost they were all but out BUT literally in the last 3 secs of 2 min extra time they found the back of the net with a great individual goal by Ollie O'Neill.

He was played through on the left edge of the box. He takes a touch, before shooting into the left corner.


Here is the goal:


Been a great few days for irish international sport
 
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Round tower

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Fair fcks to the IRELAND U-21s in Tallaght against SWEDEN .. the UEFA U21 Euro 2023 Qualifier. SWEDEN topped the group BEFORE this match AND they have scored 18 goals so far in this tournament

If the y lost they were all but out BUT literally in the last 3 secs of 2 min extra time they found the back of the net with a great individual goal by Ollie O'Neill.

He was played through on the left edge of the box. He takes a touch, before shooting into the left corner.


Here is the goal:


Been a great few days for irish international sport
Great win but their was a case of blatant diving by a Sweedish player looking for a peno., lectured by the ref. but no yellow card. The attacking player was in the box, a Irish defender withdrew his foot just at the right moment so the Sweedish player dived over nothing, no YC
 

T. Leaf

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Watched the U-21 game tonight. It did my heart good to see the way they went about their business. The only thing lacking for three-quarters of the game was any shots on target; they constantly lost the ball in the attack, but did they make up for it in the last quarter. It was great to see an Irish team tear into the opposition like that.
 

hollandia

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Round tower

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Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but it's a brutal summation of the life of Davy Tweed.


Sport seems to harbour an abnormal amount of abusers.
Had not heard of the violence his wife suffered but did read of his daughters abuse and her reaction to his death, the likes of Paisley and Allister should be pulled up on what they said about him after his death.
 

Cruimh

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Jaysus

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Jaysus

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Really need some Ronaldo/Bruno magic at Vicarage Road.

Ole needs to be at the wheel until Easter.

edit: Alas, the Tinkerman couldn’t show the same self restraint as Pep..
 
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Prof Honeydew

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Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but it's a brutal summation of the life of Davy Tweed.


Sport seems to harbour an abnormal amount of abusers.
I saw Tweed playing for Ballymena on three occasions in AIL games in Limerick back in the days before the IRFU shafted the club game. In one of them, he drew a boot on a player caught at the bottom of a ruck who wasn't anywhere near the ball. It was a needless violent unprovoked act of thuggery not even the hardest of chaws would stoop to and it led to an immediate brawl. One of the home players, a prominent Irish international, called Tweed an Orange bastard as the fists were flying. The player got a hefty suspension for his outburst and wasn't picked for Ireland for a good while afterwards. Even though the ref couldn't have missed what Tweed had done, no action was taken against him. As far as the IRFU were concerned, nothing wrong with our Davy.

Over the past thirty years, I've observed maybe ten thousand or more players in a professional capacity in adult male team sports of different codes, from grade Z amateur right up to professional. A fair few were what you might call tough, "able to take care of themselves". A few would cynically take out the opposition's lead player with a sly dig off the ball or a dangerous tackle. A small few could go mental when provoked. And there would be some situations where the usual niceties wouldn't be observed - local derbys, history between the sides, a bustup in a club or a dancehall the previous weekend, personal animosity between individuals etc.

But regardless of how violent the worst of them behaved, I never saw anybody descend to Tweed's level on the field. As far as I can recall, he was the only player I've ever come across who launched into unprovoked violent thuggery at the first opportunity. It was never about doing it for the team or settling a score or feeding off some grudge or grievance. Tweed's attempts to maim or disfigure opponents appeared to be driven solely by personal enjoyment. And the worst of it was, he was indulged. Anyone else who'd behave like that would be disowned after his first game, not just for going against the most basic principles of sport but because he was a liability to the team.

It speaks volumes for what the DUP and TUV stand for that they could still identify with this convicted criminal even after his psychopathic behaviour was subsequently revealed in every other walk of life as well.
 
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seanof

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I saw Tweed playing for Ballymena on three occasions in AIL games in Limerick back in the days before the IRFU shafted the club game. In one of them, he drew a boot on a player caught at the bottom of a ruck who wasn't anywhere near the ball. It was a needless violent unprovoked act of thuggery not even the hardest of chaws would stoop to and it led to an immediate brawl. One of the home players, a prominent Irish international, called Tweed an Orange bastard as the fists were flying. The player got a hefty suspension for his outburst and wasn't picked for Ireland for a good while afterwards. Even though the ref couldn't have missed what Tweed had done, no action was taken against him. As far as the IRFU were concerned, nothing wrong with our Davy.

Over the past thirty years, I've observed maybe ten thousand or more players in a professional capacity in adult male team sports of different codes, from grade Z amateur right up to professional. A fair few were what you might call tough, "able to take care of themselves". A few would cynically take out the opposition's lead player with a sly dig off the ball or a dangerous tackle. A small few could go mental when provoked. And there would be some situations where the usual niceties wouldn't be observed - local derbys, history between the sides, a bustup in a club or a dancehall the previous weekend, personal animosity between individuals etc.

But regardless of how violent the worst of them behaved, I never saw anybody descend to Tweed's level on the field. As far as I can recall, he was the only player I've ever come across who launched into unprovoked violent thuggery at the first opportunity. It was never about doing it for the team or settling a score or feeding off some grudge or grievance. Tweed's attempts to maim or disfigure opponents appeared to be driven solely by personal enjoyment. And the worst of it was, he was indulged. Anyone else who'd behave like that would be disowned after his first game, not just for going against the most basic principles of sport but because he was a liability to the team.

It speaks volumes for what the DUP and TUV stand for that they could still identify with this convicted criminal even after his psychopathic behaviour was subsequently revealed in every other walk of life as well.
I think this is an excellent article by Paul Kimmage from the Irish Independent. It's behind a paywall, like the earlier IT one, but I'm adding an edited extract:


"I feel sorry for people who think they know Davy Tweed Paul Kimmage

F**k this ‘Don’t speak ill of the dead’ shit! People don’t become better when they are dead; you just talk about them as if they are. But it’s not true! People are still assholes, they’re just dead assholes - Lemmy Kilmister

One of my favourite Ulstermen — the great Maurice Hamilton — advised me once that the secret of finding the best stories in Formula One was to just “look dumb and hang around”. That also applies to golf.

It was a Tuesday afternoon last July at Royal St Georges and I was looking dumb and hanging around with Rory McIlroy at the Open. He was playing a practice round with Dustin Johnson, Lee Westwood and Danny Willett and they had arrived on the sixth tee when Willett whipped out his phone to check the draw for the first two rounds.

Willett would be playing with Dean Burmester and Laird Shepherd; Westwood had drawn Stewart Cink and Martin Kaymer and Rory seemed happy enough with Patrick Reed and Cameron Smith, but it was the relief at who they had avoided that surprised most. They all had guys they couldn’t stand and abhorred playing with, and began swapping stories on the tee. Hee-hee.

A huge gallery was following them around and my jubilant scribbling must have been obvious because I was collared shortly afterwards by a face in the crowd.

“Saw you talking to Westwood,” he observed, with a strong Ulster brogue. “What do you do?”

“Journalist,” I replied. “I write for a newspaper.”

“Yeah? What paper?”

“The Sunday Independent.”

“Ahh . . . just golf?”

“No, all sports . . . Interviews mostly.”

“Have you interviewed Rory?” he asked.

“Yeah, a couple of times. And Graeme (McDowell), and Darren (Clarke).”

“What about the Open at Royal Portrush?” he asked.

We started talking about Portrush. The man had grown up in mid-Antrim and began extolling the virtues of golf on the north coast, but there was something else on his mind.

“Have you done much rugby?” he asked.

“Not recently,” I replied. “But I’ve interviewed some good ’uns over the years — Serge Blanco, David Campese, Martin Johnson. And the best of the Irish; Brian O’Driscoll, Paul O’Connell, Johnny Sexton.”

“No Ulster players?”

“Not many. I’ve met Trevor Ringland and liked Philip Matthews and Rory Best, but never got to interview them. I guess the one that stands out is Mike Gibson — now there’s a legend.”

“When was that?”

“About four, five years ago.”

“He was the last?”

“Yeah.”

Then he said it.

“What do you know of Davy Tweed?”

Twenty-six years ago, on March 3, 1995, The Irish Times carried a feature on a second-row forward about to make history in the Five Nations Championship against France at Lansdowne Road. David Tweed — a 35-year-old railway supervisor from Ballymoney in Co Antrim — was set to become (and remains) the oldest man to make an international debut for Ireland.

It was a great story. Tweed hadn’t played senior rugby until he was 28 and had planned to retire the previous season. “I am so shocked I just cannot think straight,” he told Ned Van Esbeck. “I just could not believe it when I heard I was in the side. I am just trying to come to terms with the situation.

“I honestly thought my chance had gone. The nearest I got was when I was on the bench in Paris last year and was called on to the touchline when Paddy Johns was injured and looked as if he would have to come off. But he played on and I felt that is it, that is as near as I am going to get to winning a cap.”

That he had kept going, he explained, was down to Nigel Carr, the former Ireland flanker and Ulster selector. “He told me to give at least one more go . . . I had a talk with my wife Margaret and she supported the decision so I decided to play on — and how delighted I am that I did.”

Tweed played well in the heavy defeat (7-25) defeat to France and earned a fourth and final cap for Ireland that summer against Japan at the World Cup.

Japan were the visitors yesterday and it was interesting — nine days after Tweed’s death in a motorcycle crash in Co Antrim — that there was no moment of silence or gesture to remember him.

Which is not to say there haven’t been tributes.

Here’s the DUP MLA Mervyn Storey in the Irish News. “I have known Davy and his family most of my life and cannot begin to imagine the sorrow his family have been plunged into,” he said. “Just on Sunday past he sat in front of me in church. He was a larger than life character, not just only in his physical presence.”

Here’s the TUV leader Jim Allister in the Belfast Telegraph: “Davy, a larger than life character, was widely known across North Antrim and further afield. His family is deeply rooted in the Ballymoney/Dunloy community. This is a devastating blow to his family and wide circle of friends.”

Here’s the North Antrim MP Ian Paisley in the Irish News: “The one-time leading Ulster and Ireland rugby star, political activist, elected official and leading Orangeman, David was a well-known Ulsterman,” he said.

“To his family I send my condolences and heartfelt prayers at what must be an unimaginably heartbreaking time for them. I pray God will comfort them and give them peace at their point of need.”

Here’s how that conversation went at the Open:

“What do I know of Davy Tweed? Ummm . . . not much .. . Wasn’t he the oldest debutant to play for Ireland?”

“He’s a f***ing paedophile!” he said.

It’s fair to say there was some googling done that night. In 1996, a year after playing in the Rugby World Cup, Tweed was seen hurling bricks at RUC officers when an Apprentice Boys march was banned from going through a village near Ballymena. He was also reported to have pulled down his underpants and paraded a loyalist tattoo on his arse.

A year later, in another march-related protest, he spent months heckling elderly parishioners going to and from Saturday Mass at The Church of Our Lady in Harryville. In October 1997, a few months after he had been elected to Ballymena Council, he was charged with assaulting a man in a pub. He was also abusive and occasionally violent to his (now) ex-wife Margaret.

In May 2009, he was cleared of sexually abusing two young girls over an eight-year period at Antrim Crown Court.

Three years later, in November 2012, he was found guilty of 13 counts of indecent assault, gross indecency with a child and inciting gross indecency. He was jailed for eight years but was released after four when the convictions were quashed by the Court of Appeal on a technicality (‘bad character’) in October 2016.

Amanda Brown, now a 41-year-old mother, testified against Tweed in court and told the Sunday World last week that he had ruined her childhood. “Davy Tweed to a lot of you is a political activist, a rugby hero, a councillor. But to me, he was my abuser. He ruined my childhood. He was very physically abusive towards my mum and he sexually abused me.

“My earliest clear memory was from around eight. I also have earlier memories of waking with a feeling of being pinned down and terrified. I lived with this abuse. I learned how to hide it all from people from everyone around me. I did this out of fear of what would happen if people knew.”

She also addressed the plaudits paid to Tweed since his death.

“I sit reading comments about how he was ‘such a gentleman’ and post from his ‘Orange’ brethren speaking so highly of him,” she said. “Politicians and people from the Church are singing his praises for his politics and sports heroism . . . I feel sorry for people who think they know Davy Tweed. They have forgotten about what he actually is.”

But let’s not speak ill of the dead."
 
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