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State apology for Mother and Baby Home Survivors

Nov 29, 2018
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What happened in the homes was wrong, utterly indefensible, and should never have been tolerated. However, the reality is that the state isn't paying this, everyone who pays tax in Ireland is, and the government have some kind of obligation to balance the need for restitution with the needs of the rest of the economy, and the rest of society. That may not be palatable, but it is the case.
The government needs to grow balls and go after the church and the religious orders. They were the ones who profited from the slave labour and the sale of stolen children.
 

Cruimh

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I suppose looking at the incredible wealth of the xtians is a bridge too far for our society.
The incredible wealth they are being allowed to salt away - with orders that are dying out sending all the dibs abroad etc.
And of course the Government is allowing them to tell us what they want us to know about their assets.
The state was prepared to raid the offices of the AIB in 2009 and Sachsen LB in 2008 .

But Not the Church - remember the shambles of the McAleese report - which didn't, despite what he said, get the financial records of all the orders involved.

The Government can and should play hardball. Tell the Church their assets will be worthless as the state will not give then planning permission when they try and sell off their lands, and they should be blocked from sending money abroad without permission - so that it won't interfere with any genuine charitable work.
 

Cruimh

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Outlander

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Feb 15, 2019
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Away

They stink of money.

That's a tiny bit shy of 4m€ an acre!
They probably had some legal bills to pay somewhere less accommodating:


in December 2019, the Legion admitted that members of its organization had sexually abused 175 children between 1941 and 2019, 60 of them by its founder, Maciel.[6] Former Legion priests say they had "long warned about" the problem, and that the affect of the scandal on the order's "main source of income" -- "prestigious private schools, which cater to Mexico's elite" -- could be "devastating".[7]
 

Cruimh

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The government needs to grow balls and go after the church and the religious orders. They were the ones who profited from the slave labour and the sale of stolen children.
I think they are worried about tarnishing the image of the state, the legacy of the men of 1916 etc. A close examination of the interrelationships of the various governments, politicians and civil servants would be very uncomfortable. De Valera connection and Killealea connection would be just the tip of the iceberg. Who got various contracts etc.
 

soccop

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Wasn't that Maciel's lot?

It is only worth €23 million with zoning. That zoning should be reconsidered.
That ship has sailed. Anyway whilst I have sympathy for your suggestion about sterilising lands, the constitutional protections afforded to property owners are so extensive that all they have to do is show up at the High Court and threaten any such restriction with a constitutional case.
 

soccop

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They probably had some legal bills to pay somewhere less accommodating:



I had to look that man up, he is lauded as being the greatest fundraiser the Catholic church ever had for fucksake.


Why do they need so many millions to do up a small school in Leopardstown?
 

Cruimh

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That ship has sailed. Anyway whilst I have sympathy for your suggestion about sterilising lands, the constitutional protections afforded to property owners are so extensive that all they have to do is show up at the High Court and threaten any such restriction with a constitutional case.
play their game back at them . How many parasitic developers are willing to wait 5 or 10 years while it is delayed through the courts?
 

soccop

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play their game back at them . How many parasitic developers are willing to wait 5 or 10 years while it is delayed through the courts?
I would be encouraged to see such an initiative but I can't see anybody in any of the relevant government departments initiating such a policy. The Irish government is essentially conservative on these matters as is evidenced by the O'Gorman performance, they want no rocking of the boat.


It's all religion/politics/money/power/corruption /lies.
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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DCC councillors get to vote on rezoning issues so isn't it in the remit of DL-Rathdown councillors to do the same....?
 

soccop

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DCC councillors get to vote on rezoning issues so isn't it in the remit of DL-Rathdown councillors to do the same....?
It is! Where do you think we got Josepha Madigan, MMOC, Liam Cosgrove Jnr. ,John and Maria Bailey and so on from? They'd re-zone the beach at Sandycove if they thought they'd get away with it. They are charlatans and philistines and it's all about money.

They're not called the establishment for nothing.
If you have a bit of time look up the Rainbow Rapids story.
 

Cruimh

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It is! Where do you think we got Josepha Madigan, MMOC, Liam Cosgrove Jnr. ,John and Maria Bailey and so on from? They'd re-zone the beach at Sandycove if they thought they'd get away with it. They are charlatans and philistines and it's all about money.

They're not called the establishment for nothing.
If you have a bit of time look up the Rainbow Rapids story.
irish people are too compliant. In Mexico the people rebelled- in fact an entire government was excommunicated
 
Nov 29, 2018
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It is! Where do you think we got Josepha Madigan, MMOC, Liam Cosgrove Jnr. ,John and Maria Bailey and so on from? They'd re-zone the beach at Sandycove if they thought they'd get away with it. They are charlatans and philistines and it's all about money.

They're not called the establishment for nothing.
If you have a bit of time look up the Rainbow Rapids story.
As long it is not for traveller accommodation.
 

Franzoni

Member
Nov 28, 2018
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It is! Where do you think we got Josepha Madigan, MMOC, Liam Cosgrove Jnr. ,John and Maria Bailey and so on from? They'd re-zone the beach at Sandycove if they thought they'd get away with it. They are charlatans and philistines and it's all about money.

They're not called the establishment for nothing.
If you have a bit of time look up the Rainbow Rapids story.

DDC councillors have turned down rezoning permission for developments in some of the local churches grounds recently on the northside.....

At the end of the day people over there voted them in......
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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irish people are too compliant. In Mexico tge prople rebelled- in fact an entire government was excommunicated
Nothing to do with compliant most just don't care too busy trying to get on with work life etc..........many don't pay attention to issues like this....

I was trying to explain to a couple of sheet metal (ventilation) workers earlier that they would never get a better chance than now to put the boot in for pay parity with the other trades and i might as well have been talking to the wall......
 

soccop

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Nov 28, 2018
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soccop

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Nov 28, 2018
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Temporally dislocated.
Wasn't that Maciel's lot?

It is only worth €23 million with zoning. That zoning should be reconsidered.
Im just reading up on this monster and his legacy. Today after some years off what passes for an investigation by the Vatican here's what we've got

"report emerged around January 2020 alleging that the papal envoy in charge (Cardinal Velasio De Paolis) "refused to punish or even investigate" an incident where a priest from the Legion of Christ raped "little girls aged 6 to 8 or 9" in front of their classmates at an elite Catholic school in Cancun, Mexico, and that "many" of "the superiors who covered up" the priests crimes, "are still in power and ministry today". According to a former Legion priest, Rev. Christian Borgogno, who co-founded a Facebook group ("Legioleaks") where the report first appeared, "De Paolis' decision to leave in place Legion superiors, many of whom were close to Maciel, 'made reform' of the Legion 'impossible'".[7] In response, a month later the Legion promised "accountability and transparency" and "vowed to investigate the confirmed cases of past abuse by 33 priests and 71 seminarians".[58] The Legion also "officially retracted" the years-long campaign it mounted "to defame and discredit" the original group of men who went public in the 1990s to accuse Maciel. The Legion "begged their forgiveness and admitted it hadn’t made reparations to them all".[58]"
 

Cruimh

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Nov 29, 2018
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Jaysus

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Sep 6, 2021
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The cynic in me suspect this is stalling rather than an attempt to be thorough

Ruling in Mother and Baby Home court cases pushed back until January
Stalling until people are more focused on getting the wee childer vaccinated. They’re waiting for a “look over there” event to cover the findings.
 
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