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The death of the Labour Party

hollandia

Literally knows shit
Staff member
Moderator
Member
The long drawn out process of replacing Brendan Howlin as leader of the Labour party has concluded with the confirmation of the election of Alan Kelly as leader.


When faced with two choices Labour seem to make the worse one each time. I don't think there's any way the labour party can be considered as party of the left any more.
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
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And already throwing shapes about going into govt with FF or FG.

One source said there was “no dissension” from the position that Labour should go into opposition while another said Mr Kelly expressed a view that was in line with the “thrust” of the general attitude of the meeting. But supporters of Mr Kelly are split on whether the party should enter government with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in the weeks ahead.
 

Shaadi

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,594
2,890
Kelly has more pizazz than any other Labour TD, but his personal attitude when he was in Govt would make a mockery of any attempt that Labour could make to rebrand themselves as being left wing. Dublin is where Labour could make some recovery, but the election of what many Dubs would see as a crude redneck to the leadership of Labour won't do anything to boost Labour in the Capital.


However he is a scrapper who will keep Labour afloat unless Labour make the fatal mistake of going back into Govt with FG and FF.
 

snorlax

Member
Dec 11, 2019
2,026
1,948
Kelly has more pizazz than any other Labour TD, but his personal attitude when he was in Govt would make a mockery of any attempt that Labour could make to rebrand themselves as being left wing. Dublin is where Labour could make some recovery, but the election of what many Dubs would see as a crude redneck to the leadership of Labour won't do anything to boost Labour in the Capital.


However he is a scrapper who will keep Labour afloat unless Labour make the fatal mistake of going back into Govt with FG and FF.
I dunno. Kelly (as director of elections and minister for housing) played a key role in wiping out Labour after their last stint in government. People don't want parties that stand for nothing anymore, as we saw with FF in the last election. But it's fine with me. The sooner Labour disappear the better.
 

curio

Member
Feb 26, 2019
4,007
3,666
Kelly has more pizazz than any other Labour TD, but his personal attitude when he was in Govt would make a mockery of any attempt that Labour could make to rebrand themselves as being left wing. Dublin is where Labour could make some recovery, but the election of what many Dubs would see as a crude redneck to the leadership of Labour won't do anything to boost Labour in the Capital.


However he is a scrapper who will keep Labour afloat unless Labour make the fatal mistake of going back into Govt with FG and FF.
Didn't the labour party actually start in Alan Kelly's neck of the woods?
 

ruserious

Member
Dec 4, 2018
5,314
5,152
I dislike Aodhan, but at least he represented a side to Labour which they could portray themselves as a Unique party at election time, aiming for a certain left leaning liberal vote, currently under threat from the SDs. Under Kelly, they will disappear further into irrelevance as they attempt to swing from the coattails of FF and FG.
 

Franzoni

Member
Nov 28, 2018
4,504
5,830
I dislike Aodhan, but at least he represented a side to Labour which they could portray themselves as a Unique party at election time, aiming for a certain left leaning liberal vote, currently under threat from the SDs. Under Kelly, they will disappear further into irrelevance as they attempt to swing from the coattails of FF and FG.

I heard Ó Ríordáin on the radio a few weeks ago and he wanted to reach out to other left of centre oppostion parties and try and build a consensus ..i wouldn't agree with him on everything he says but he comes across a lot more genuine on the issues that affect people than others i've seen and heard in the Labour party......

It looks like the Kelly faction and it's supporters would rather continue down the same dead end road they have previously travelled no doubt with their chums in SIPTU in tow........

Should be interesting as SIPTU argued against closing the contruction industry in the face of an pandemic when it was obvious to other unions and even some of our hardcore centre right chums that everyone needs to stay at home for the forseeable....
 
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Nov 29, 2018
6,945
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Kelly has more pizazz than any other Labour TD, but his personal attitude when he was in Govt would make a mockery of any attempt that Labour could make to rebrand themselves as being left wing. Dublin is where Labour could make some recovery, but the election of what many Dubs would see as a crude redneck to the leadership of Labour won't do anything to boost Labour in the Capital.


However he is a scrapper who will keep Labour afloat unless Labour make the fatal mistake of going back into Govt with FG and FF.
Kelly is an ignorant thug who immediately reminds, those who may forgotten, of the glee with which "labour" inflicted austerity on the poor, sick and vulnerable. He and iphone will always be remembered for cuts, foodbanks and Irish Water.
 
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Nov 29, 2018
6,945
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I heard Ó Ríordáin on the radio a few weeks ago and he wanted to reach out to other left of centre oppostion parties and try and build a consensus ..i wouldn't agree with him on everything he says but he comes across a lot more genuine on the issues that affect people than others i've seen and heard in the Labour party......

It looks like the Kelly faction and it's supporters would rather continue down the same dead end road they have previously travelled no doubt with their chums in SIPTU in tow........

Should be interesting as SIPTU argued against closing the contruction industry in the face of an pandemic when it was obvious to other unions and even some of our hardcore centre right chums that everyone needs to stay at home for the forseeable....
Alongside "labour", SIPTU sold out a long time ago. Great pals with Bertie, IBEC and CIF partnership agreements for the chosen few, officials salaries aligned with the higher paid ranks of the civil service, with pensions to match. On retirement handy sinecures/state board apointments, who can forget Geraghty giving developers publicly owned prime city sites in exchange for dog boxes in Abbotstown. He was, and still may be, on the board of the central bank alongside Begg.

The "labour" party and their fellow travellers in SIPTU have done more to roll back tbe hard won rights of workers than FFFG combined.
 

Franzoni

Member
Nov 28, 2018
4,504
5,830
Alongside "labour", SIPTU sold out a long time ago. Great pals with Bertie, IBEC and CIF partnership agreements for the chosen few, officials salaries aligned with the higher paid ranks of the civil service, with pensions to match. On retirement handy sinecures/state board apointments, who can forget Geraghty giving developers publicly owned prime city sites in exchange for dog boxes in Abbotstown. He was, and still may be, on the board of the central bank alongside Begg.

The "labour" party and their fellow travellers in SIPTU have done more to roll back tbe hard won rights of workers than FFFG combined.

Don't forget the four million in the slush fund that no one knew anything about.....
 

Franzoni

Member
Nov 28, 2018
4,504
5,830
Ah the infamous "training" fund.

I could be wrong but I seem to remember hearing that certain SIPTU people were involved in Bertie's plotting to smear and discredit Mick O'Reilly.
From what i can see there has always been some sort of FF connection into some unions as a lot of them are employers or in management positions and not for the better...

My ould fella was a shop steward with the WUI and the old ITGWU ....i found a long service medal he got from the WUI when we were clearing out my Grannys house a few years ago another poster a few years back gave me the rundown on what went on in the 70's so i can why the ould lad probably left and went to the ITGWU....that shower actually had the balls to knock on her door looking for money off her after he died....!!...

I've seen it in my own union over the years but in the last few years they seem to have cleared a lot of that out as a lot of lads went over the another union instead ...........it's not a problem having back channels to try and avoid trouble over an issue in itself but not when it consists of selling out....
 
Nov 29, 2018
6,945
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From what i can see there has always been some sort of FF connection into some unions as a lot of them are employers or in management positions and not for the better...

My ould fella was a shop steward with the WUI and the old ITGWU ....i found a long service medal he got from the WUI when we were clearing out my Grannys house a few years ago another poster a few years back gave me the rundown on what went on in the 70's so i can why the ould lad probably left and went to the ITGWU....that shower actually had the balls to knock on her door looking for money off her after he died....!!...

I've seen it in my own union over the years but in the last few years they seem to have cleared a lot of that out as a lot of lads went over the another union instead ...........it's not a problem having back channels to try and avoid trouble over an issue in itself but not when it consists of selling out....
Fully agree on back channels, they are invaluable in effective IR. As a HR manager I always had regular meetings with the unions. Trust was built in that way, something I noticed in that latter years was that some, but not all, union officials no longer had the rights of their members to the fore. They were more interested in cosying up to management.

For the last four years before I retired I was not in a unionised enviroment and on many occasions wished I was.
 
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Shaadi

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,594
2,890
I dunno. Kelly (as director of elections and minister for housing) played a key role in wiping out Labour after their last stint in government. People don't want parties that stand for nothing anymore, as we saw with FF in the last election. But it's fine with me. The sooner Labour disappear the better.
That's a very good point about the Director of Elections thing. I would just point out that despite having the millstone of being a Labour TD around his neck that he himself got elected in both 2016 and 2020 in one of the most competitive constituencies in the country. He's a bollox but he's a feisty bollox. If he can get his teeth into a saleable line for Labour then he should be able to aggressively sell that line better than the usual chinless wonders that have led Labour.

Realistically it's too late for Labour to do any more than consolidate what they have in the hope that they can incrementally rebuild their party over the next decade. There is just far too much competition about for any Labour Leader to make any solid progress for the foreseeable future.
 

Shaadi

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,594
2,890
Kelly is an ignorant thug who immediately reminds, those who may forgotten, of the glee with which "labour" inflicted austerity on the poor, sick and vulnerable. He and iphone will always be remembered for cuts, foodbanks and Irish Water.
I wouldn't disagree on any of that. iPhone in particular was unapolegetic and unwilling to accept that she did wrong in Govt. Kelly is a shrewder politician who has the hard neck to excuse his past behaviour as being the exuberance of youth leading him astray. His leadership spiel will be all about learning by listening ( puke ).
 

seanof

Member
Nov 27, 2018
2,896
2,856
Last time I checked many years ago, all Irish trade unions remitted a small proportion of their members' subscriptions to the "labour" party. I don't know if this is still the case but, if so, it's outrageous. "Labour" ceased to represent ordinary workers decades ago.

I've never seen anything to indicate that Alan Kelly has any genuine interest in workers or their pay and conditions. In fact, he might have felt at home in the erstwhile PDs.

The grapevine indicates that during his tenure as Minister / Minister of State, Kelly was quite bullying in his attitude to Civil Servants, both in his own Departments and in others. I know of one Principal Officer in another Dept who he "fvcked out of it" over the phone, claiming he had made representations which he had not. Kelly's a dodgy geezer, in my opinion. Watch him.
 
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Nov 29, 2018
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Last time I checked many years ago, all Irish trade unions remitted a small proportion of their members' subscriptions to the "labour" party. I don't know if this is still the case but, if so, it's outrageous. "Labour" ceased to represent ordinary workers decades ago.

I've never seen anything to indicate that Alan Kelly has any genuine interest in workers or their pay and conditions. In fact, he might have felt at home in the erstwhile PDs.

The grapevine indicates that during his tenure as Minister / Minister of State, Kelly was quite bullying in his attitude to Civil Servants, both in his own Departments and in others. I know of one Principal Officer in another Dept who he "fvcked out of it" over the phone, claiming he had made representations which he had not. Kelly's a dodgy geezer, in my opinion. Watch him.
As far as I know only SIPTU made a contribution, from members' subs, to the "labour" party. Any individual member could take action to stop this and many did.
 

seanof

Member
Nov 27, 2018
2,896
2,856
As far as I know only SIPTU made a contribution, from members' subs, to the "labour" party. Any individual member could take action to stop this and many did.
You might well be right and I hope so. I'd hate to think I'd contributed to the funds of those "labour" party charlatans.
 
Nov 29, 2018
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You might well be right and I hope so. I'd hate to think I'd contributed to the funds of those "labour" party charlatans.
Are you still paying subs? If so, contact your union and ask if a portion of.your syb goes to the "labour" party.

If you are retired/no longer an active member, write to your previous union and ask, you could tell them you want a refund. Little lockdown project.
 

Bonkers

Member
Feb 15, 2019
4,965
4,701
Are you still paying subs? If so, contact your union and ask if a portion of.your syb goes to the "labour" party.

If you are retired/no longer an active member, write to your previous union and ask, you could tell them you want a refund. Little lockdown project.
I was in a semi state union for many years. They were dodgy as fuk. I took redundancy and drove a taxi for a while. Four of the head honchos got into the car one well jarred. The chap who paid asked for a receipt and i gave it to him no problem. The other 3 asked for one too. I gave them a nice reply and one of them recognised me. His face was priceless.
 
D

Deleted member 146

Guest
The long drawn out process of replacing Brendan Howlin as leader of the Labour party has concluded with the confirmation of the election of Alan Kelly as leader.


When faced with two choices Labour seem to make the worse one each time. I don't think there's any way the labour party can be considered as party of the left any more.
Ah Jaysis.
 

Shaadi

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,594
2,890
The Labour Party is not looking to enter government but it could support one from opposition, its new leader Alan Kelly.

Mr Kelly said although his party will “talk to anybody”, he does not believe they will be in a position to go into a coalition.

“We will talk to anybody who wants to talk to us, it is the appropriate thing to do at this time,” he told RTÉ radio’s Morning Ireland.

“There are four large parties, any three of which could form a government. It is up to them to do so.” Mr Kelly said he was disappointed that the Green Party “with their large mandate” were “not willing to put their shoulder to the wheel.”

Mr Kelly said he was looking forward to putting forward the Labour party’s vision.
“To show that we are different to all the other parties.”

He said he believed there was a need for a strong majority government, “that’s what the four (other political parties) should be doing.”

There is a need for a strong opposition, that was critically important.

A majority government is going to have to make difficult decision and a strong opposition was needed to challenge those decisions, he said.

 

Dasayev

Member
Feb 20, 2019
397
425
Labour should play hard to get, but now is definitely the time to get into government.

There's money to be spent. Austerity has gone out of fashion and stimulus is now "on trend". It's at times like this that you can reshape the workings of government. The effects of which can last a generation.

Any politician would be mad not to want to be in power now.
 

hollandia

Literally knows shit
Staff member
Moderator
Member
A man with the desire to surf on the SF wave. Probably not a bad fit at all. SF need cool heads rather than hotheads.

If the SF wave becomes a tsunami then there will be a whole raft of Jumpers ready to leap on board.
I imagine that this has a lot to do with union politics rather than politics per se. Labour has long lost it's grip on the unions.
 

Shaadi

Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,594
2,890
I imagine that this has a lot to do with union politics rather than politics per se. Labour has long lost it's grip on the unions.
Probably, SF have been becoming besties with Trade Unions for a while now. That growing relationship will be a major stumbling point for anyone hoping that SF can get value for money out of the PS.
 
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